Dual Covenant Theology
June 28, 2008 | 24 Comments
6/28/08: The Error of Dual Covenant Theology
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24 Responses to “Dual Covenant Theology”
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June 30th, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
You spoke of Iran vs Israel, I believe that this is just political propaganda to rally people against Obama. Iran won’t attack on November 5th, and they won’t attack in January when Obama is sworn in. There will be an altercation later on though, instigated by Israel or Iran; but we, the US is too far spread out to effectively come to Israel’s aid. Israel would love for us to take care of Iran for them, and on CNN it appears that we are flexing our CIA muscles, but I hope they don’t call our bluff, cause I just don’t see us as being able to play this poker hand.
Ok, for Dual Covenant or replacement theology, you cannot be seen by the father unless you are covered by the blood of Yeshua, our blood is dirty and El Shaddai cannot allow our sin to defile his sight. So you say to the Jew who’s Grandmother died without accepting the Messiah, ” I am so sorry that your Grandmother did not accept the blood of the lamb.” How did she atone for her sins? Did she skip out on sacraficial practice only because the Temple was destroyed, is she somehow exempted from that practice? You obviously loved your deceased Grandmother, well so did I. I had a Grandmother myself and even though she did believe in Jesus, she did not practice in her daily life anything other than perhaps an evening prayer before she went to sleep. I cannot answer for the judgement of Ha Shem, we are at his mercy. Everyone and their Grandmother deserves to be thrown into Hades, but it is the love for Him that we are spared. Don’t make the same mistakes as your and my Grandmother, teach yourself so that when your Grandson/daughter looks back and asks whether or not you will receive eternal life with God, they can say in confidence, yes!
July 5th, 2008 @ 12:51 am
When is this program going up on the podcast?
July 5th, 2008 @ 11:17 am
Ewan,
Podcast is updated.
Marcus French
Line of Fire Moderator
July 6th, 2008 @ 7:22 am
Thanks.
July 6th, 2008 @ 7:55 am
I’ve got it now. I have one minor quibble. Sometimes these files including this one have no ID3 tags which means I have to add the info manually so that I can find it on my MP3 player. Other than this, keep up the great work.
July 6th, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
Ewan,
Which files don’t have the ID3 tags? We try to make sure they have them.
Marcus French
Line of Fire Moderator
July 7th, 2008 @ 6:07 am
I don’t know now because I’ve fixed mine up. This last one as I said and most of the early ones I think.
July 8th, 2008 @ 2:02 am
I have always understood the issue of the old testament/”Do Jews need Jesus to be saved” as follows:
The old testament/Mosaic covenant is a theoretical means by which one can be saved by works. It serves to show God’s standards, and to show us what needs to be done if we want to “make it on our own” – and to show how far we fall short of these standards. I say it is a “theoretical” means by which one can be saved, as throughout history, there has only ever been one man who has kept the Mosaic law perfectly – and He was also God (ie. Jesus).
Given that Jews are also human, and that the Law cannot be pefectly kept by any human (unless they are also God), then it follows that they also need Jesus in order to be saved.
Well, that is my 2 cents worth …..
July 8th, 2008 @ 10:53 am
Michael,
Here’s a question for you: According to Romans 4 and Galatians 3, how was Abranam “saved”?
July 8th, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
His faith was credited to him for righteousness. Ultimately Abraham was saved by the grace of GOD through faith.
July 8th, 2008 @ 11:25 pm
Anthony — correct!
July 14th, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Bentley brings the Jesw and Gentiles together into the MSoG heresy
” The advance troops, God’s forerunners, are about to forge the way for believers worldwide, both Jewish and Gentile, to be swept into one camp—the one new man! This new breed, this one new man, is the key to worldwide revival.”
Silly me, I didn’t know there were two camps of believers.
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=revival&Id=163&pid=954&bid=923
July 14th, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Bill,
Can you tell me what, in this specfic statement, suggests the manifest sons of God teaching? Or is it found further on in the link? Also, what strikes you as “heresy” in this particular quote? Or, put another way, are there any divisions that exist within the Body (such as committed vs. non-committed, or Spirit-filled vs. cessationist)?
I’m just trying to understand your thinking here rather than trying to defend the statement.
Thanks!
July 15th, 2008 @ 12:57 am
Dr. Brown,
The use of the terms “one new Man and “new Breed” suggests the MSoG teaching. The article goes on to state:
“This new breed, this one new man, is the key to worldwide revival. And when that day dawns, nothing will stop this army of dread champions.”
The concept of a great endtime revival and a (Joel’s) army of dread champions are also closely aligned with MSoG teachings.
But don’t take my word for it.
In context, the link cited above was posted on Bentley’s website on June 8. On may 28, Bentley had this to say (transcript supplied by Steven Strader):
-begin quote-
Tonight is a crossing over and we have a moment, says that
the Lord, where we can labor and travail until Christ is formed
in you. We need maturity. There are things that are going to
mature tonight.
Whereas before maybe it was a little embryo. Maybe before it
was 3 months in the womb. Maybe before it was 6 months in
the womb. Maybe your city, maybe your region, maybe your
nation — destiny has been in the labor pains and you have
been in a place of contraction.
I feel if we gave it a big push that we can literally form Christ –
Christ in you……
We’re going to go back into travail right now until Christ is
formed….
Heaven will hold back the coming of Jesus Christ until sons and daughters
come into maturity.
===========================================
It’s called the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD
===========================================
Heaven will hold back the second coming. A mature church
manifests the glory of God. A mature church manifests the
word of God in truth and power. A mature church walks in
holiness and character. A mature church walks in miracles,
signs, and wonders.
I’m talking about a maturity tonight…and it’s being formed in
you. LET CHRIST BE FORMED IN MATURITY. LET THE
FULL MAN, LET THE FULLNESS OF GOD COME FORTH,
AND LET THE WOMB OPEN TONIGHT, LET THE WOMB BE
OPEN TONIGHT, AND LET THERE BE A GREAT BIRTHING,
Says the Lord.
-end quote-
MSoG is heretical in so many ways. I don’t know where to start. But tyhe idea that the 2nd coming of Christ will be “held back” until “sons and daughters come into maturity (the “one new man”) is a good start. And note that when he talks about “Chirst being formed in us” he is not talking about the “hope of Glory.”
Bentley presents his supposition as thus saith the Lord. If he is speaking for God when God has not spoken, then he also is heretical.
As an aside, I found the teaching about the two camps – Jewish Believers and Gentiles to be quite odd. I’ve always taken the bible at face value – “there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Greek).” Plainly, the two camps being (soon) “swept together into one camp” must be some sort of new revelation. I must have missed the memo.
-Bill
July 15th, 2008 @ 1:49 am
Bill,
Thanks for the clarification and the extended quotes! Much appreciated.
I am, however, a little baffled by your comment about taking the Bible at face value, in which case there are no Jews or Gentiles (in the Body). Are there not men and women in the Bible, despite Paul’s similar statement about that? And doesn’t he give specific instruction to each in some of his letters? And doesn’t Paul refer to Gentile believers as Gentiles in Romans 11?
Paul’s point about “neither Jew nor Greek,” etc., had to do with status and standing, not with existence, and, in fact, these two peoples come together in one new man, according to Ephesians, cited with a different sense, of course, in the quote you supplied above.
So, unrelated to your main point about MSOG, there are Jewish believers and Gentiles believers today, just as there are male and female believers today, but we are all equal members of the same spiritual family.
July 15th, 2008 @ 7:41 am
I understand what this Bentley character is saying when he says maturity. Or at least I think I do. Anyway, I see maturity in the Word as levels of Faith. Like when someone says they lost Faith in God, that is a crock of junk, becuase Faith cannot be lost. To lose faith is only to lose the comprehension or understanding of the Word or message.
Don’t really know what direction you were headed in other than to point out Mr. Bentley’s faults…
July 15th, 2008 @ 9:06 am
Ryan,
Could you provide Biblical and/or logical support for your statement “Faith cannot be lost”? Surely there are those that once believed that God existed, and even was at work in their life, that no longer do. I don’t think that all of them have just “lost their comprehension or understanding of the Word or message”, they have lost just what they’ve said they’ve lost… faith.
July 15th, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Dr. Brown,
re: Jew and Greek. I guess I really don’t make much over whether a christian has a jewish background or gentile background- we are all just christians to me. I’ve never really observed “two camps,” perhaps you could better comment on that.
Maybe you did, having stated “but we are all equal members of the same spiritual family.” That seems to contradict the “two camp” theory.
As to taking the Bible at face value – my point beiong if the Bible tells us not to seperate believers (Jew and Gentile) into two camps then we should not.
Having the gift of sarcasim, I might as well be Jewish.
The statement from the Freshfire website caught my interest as it seemed to relate to this blog topic. Depending on how you read it, it almost looks like Dual Covenanat theology (Is a Jew a “Jewish Believer” or does “Believer” always refer to a belief in Christ?).
I appreciate the show even though its web-only here in the Shenandoah Valley.
Ryan,
When someone states “LET CHRIST BE FORMED IN MATURITY” and they espouse MSoG, they most likley are also promoting the “little gods” doctrine, i.e. was are all Christs, we all all “the anointed.” Bentley is MSog, and has made other revealing statements such as “When I’m in the anointing, I’m not a man.”
>Don’t really know what direction you were headed in other than to point out Mr. Bentley’s faults…
Just quoting the guy, for pete’s sake. I can’t make this stuff up. Anyhow, I thought it tied into the radio program.
July 15th, 2008 @ 5:52 pm
Ryan,
One word about posting here. You may disagree with what someone teaches, but disparaging comments are out of line. So, please refrain from calling a brother or sister a “character,” as in “this Bentley character.”
Thanks.
July 15th, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
Marcus,
Sure, what I mean is, someone can doubt their whole belief system, someone can reject a way of looking at something. But do they lose something in the process? No, they evolve. Faith is something that cannot be measured, and if it cannot be measured, it cannot be taken away. I am not a 3rd degree black belt in Faith, so I cannot go up a peg or down a peg. I can only change. If I use to believe in God and no longer do, my faith is not lost, it is denied. I now deny myself from believing what I use to believe in.
Bill,
I guess I didn’t quite see the relevance with the topic, but I found it interesting, so thank you for that. I agree with the let christ be formed in maturity only if it means let our understanding of who Yeshua is in our lives and how to get to know him better thusly maturing our relationship with him and understanding his Word and how it applies to our world. I do believe we were made in the image of him, we can do things like visualize future events in our lives which I believe is a gift from Him, true they are just scenarios in our minds, but I doubt that other creatures on this earth have that ability. I don’t believe that we are all “little gods” but, we are more powerful than angels. hehe
Michael,
I do respect others views, but I do see that by saying “character” in that way it was a little diparaging and I am not here to degrade anyone…
I will do better!
July 16th, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Ryan,
You said ” Faith is something that cannot be measured, and if it cannot be measured, it cannot be taken away. ”
OTOH, Jesus seemed to believe that faith was quantifiable.
And He said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
Matthew 17:20 (NASB)
I also find it interesting faith is talked about in the Bible as someting beyond belief for salvation.
“To another the word of knowledge, by the same Spirit; to another faith, by the same Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:8,9).
To me this implies that some Christians operate in the realm of faith in a much higher (quantifiable) measure than others.
Smith Wigglesworth also believed that faith was quatifiable. He is well known for his 1926 classic “Ever Increasing Faith.”
July 16th, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Bill,
Yeshua didn’t have charts and graphs like Ross Perot
So he used an analogy to better convey his message to the people of that time.
Let me ask you this…
How much faith do you have?
July 17th, 2008 @ 10:15 pm
More every day.
August 2nd, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Is faith -ALWAYS- the substance of things yet unseen, but hoped for?