26 Responses to “Is Christianity Jewish?”

1. Ryan Dube
   July 15th, 2008 @ 10:18 am

   Christianity by today’s standards is very anti-jewish. People who claim they are Christians celebrate holidays, not Holydays. Such as Christmas and Easter. So much damage was done to take El Shaddai’s people from him when Constantine came into play and merged his kingdom’s cultures.

   I will speak more on this later when I have time…

2. Matthew Rich
   July 15th, 2008 @ 6:56 pm

   In my attempt to learn about the hebraic roots of Christianity, I have discovered that there are many Messianic believers who belittle the convictions of other non-Messianic believers in Jesus who are not “torah observant”. Great rhetoric has been created which separates those, like myself, who are seeking a greater understanding of the hebraic context of the New Testament and how the Old Testament relates to us today. Making terms such as “the Church” to appear as curse words appears to be a popular hobby among many Messianic congregations. If I were not interested in the Messianic perspective, then I would not listen. Still, let’s instruct in love and not a “holier than thou” attitude. Is your doctrine PERFECT? Let’s face the facts that mine is not and neither is yours. So let’s learn from each other and instruct each other in love. Truth must be spoken! But truth spoken in hate and hurtful sarcasm returns nothing but deaf ears. Let’s be careful as we begin the discussion this week.

3. Ryan Dube
   July 15th, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

   Michael,

   Thanks for the conversation, I thoroughly enjoyed it!

4. Joshua Harris
   July 15th, 2008 @ 8:27 pm

   Most Christianity of today’s standards is very pro Jewish.

   Romans 14:4-6 concerning observing or not observing holidays “…let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”
   Why strain at gnats over an already settled issue, and ‘who are you to judge another man’s servant?’, and ‘why do you judge your brother, or why do you set at naught your brother?’

   Western Christians who observe holidays are not anti Jewish any more than Messianic Jews observing the passover are anti western Christians. It’s more a matter of culture than of anti-anything. If we are going to function as the New Man, we are going to have to get to seeing beyond culture, and recognize the same Jesus dynamically alive in all believers, Jew and Gentile.

5. Louis Vigo
   July 15th, 2008 @ 11:13 pm

   Easter is actually a celebration of Passover. There was a myth that started around the 1800′s that Easter was actually related to Ishtar of Babylon. But if you search this out, you will find that there are no similarities, any websites you come across will base their finds on the one or two guys (one who was one of the original Brothers Grimm) teachings.

   The Easter egg was a pagan symbol of the new life of springtime, (fertility symbols tended to be holistic, which included everything from agriculture to having babies). It was in the 1400′s that the Easter Egg first emerged. Missionaries seized the symbol and used it to preach the gospel, saying the the new life it represents is in fact the new life found in Christ.

   The Easter Hare emerged in the 1700′s, its not clear what the symbolism was, but scholars think it was some type of fertility symbol, thus the same comcept as the egg.

   To suppose the the church fathers subverted Christianity by peraching the gospel using cultural symbols is completely ridiculous. Today we take pagan worship symbols, like guitars and use them for the glory of God.

   Paul in Acts 17 preaches using a literature that was originally about Zeus, but Paul takes considerable liberty in using things in their culture, even religious things, and turning it towards the Gospel.

6. Ryan Dube
   July 16th, 2008 @ 10:10 pm

   Dr. Brown,

   Scenario: Let’s say that we make a pact, let’s say that I ask you to do X amount of jumping jacks every Friday, and if you do said jumping jacks I will then reward you with a nice juicy steak.

   You ask, how many Friday’s must you commit to doing the jumping jacks for, I respond “forever” I won’t let you know when you will get your steak, but if you hold up your end of the pact, I will deliver.

   You agree. Weeks turn into months, months turn into years and so on. I finally show up one day with a nice juicy steak for you. You eat the steak and go on about your business, you thank me for the steak, but you stop doing the jumping jacks.

   You stop because you feel that you did what was required for the steak, but since I fullfilled my end of the bargain, you see the pact as completed.

   I come to you and say, Michael, why have you stopped doing your jumping jacks? Just because you got your steak, didn’t signify that our pact was over or completed. When I said forever, I meant forever.

   This is the point I was trying to make with you on the phone the other day, I used another analogy, but the message in that one was a little different.

   I did catch the tail end of your broadcast today about Shabbot/Sabbath being held whenever, and I think this applies to that way of thinking as well. I think that if you are just saved, God just wants your love so anyday that you wish to give him, he will accept it. But once you come into faith and begin to understand the Jewish roots of your faith, you need to conform to his Word. We need to put aside these loopholes and just obey. There are different types of laws, and some with the fullfillment of Yeshua’s death/resurrection are no longer needed, ie. blood offerings (other than his); but in Leviticus, he tells us, this is my wish and do this for all days; so we must.

   Please keep doing your jumping jacks

   I have a huge respect for your knowledge and your wisdom Dr. Brown, I pray that you don’t harden your heart to His will.

7. Dr. Michael L. Brown
   July 17th, 2008 @ 3:01 am

   Ryan,

   Thanks for your kind words at the end of your post, but what in the world makes you think I would harden my heart to His will? What exactly are you saying is His will? And are you aware that we have been unable to keep the great majority of the “forever” and “for all generations” commandments of the Torah for the last 1900+ years? Either Yeshua fulfilled these requirements and gave us a better way or we’re in trouble.

8. Ryan Dube
   July 17th, 2008 @ 1:21 pm

   Michael,

   With knowledge/truth, comes responsibility.

   Yes I am aware that we have not been following his “forever” commandments from the Torah. But aren’t you seeking revival? This is the revival we need. Submission to His word. The only reason why I said that your heart might be hardened is for the same reason why a Jewish brother might not open up to Yeshua (Jesus), because what about his sweet grandmother that didn’t believe in the Annointed one? You probably have loved ones that have passed, friends and family that did not go back to first century Messianic Judaism, but they accepted the messiah and you feel that they are saved; so isn’t that good enough?

   I say that when you come to know truth, you are responsible for that truth. Just as a child, you mature in faith as a child matures in adolescence. When a child does something in ignorance, you can repremand them, because they were not aware of the rules. Once you have instructed the child to the rules and they do it again out of defiance, then you can punish them.

   Yeshua did give us a better way Michael, he gave us a way out of our sins. With repenting of course so that we do not fall back into the same sins. He also gave us a way for God to see us again. Without Yeshua’s blood covering us, we are absent from His site. That is why we need Ruah Hakodesh, that is why we need Yeshua as a buffer/messenger.

   The question you asked me the other day on the phone, I had no way to answer. Simply because the Jews that the Apostles were speaking to in that day already practiced there feasts and seders and shabbats. The Torah acts as a foundation, and the New Testament is the structure built on top of that foundation.

9. Dr Michael L Brown
   July 17th, 2008 @ 1:57 pm

   Ryan,

   My purpose on this blog is not to get into personal issues, but just to bring closure to your last few posts here, I would encourage you not to make judgments based on the limited information you have about others. It is a spiritually unhealthy practice. And take a good look at Romans 14 while alone with the Lord one day, on your knees before Him, and you’ll find Paul’s words there quite relevant.

   Also, take the time to study out the “forever” commandments of the Torah — I’ve done the work for you, if you like, and you can find the discussion in vol. 4 of my Jewish Objections series — and you’ll see that we are NOT called to go backwards but forwards. I would encourage you to immerse yourself in Hebrews for a while.

   As for needing Yeshua, we need Him as far more than a buffer-messenger!

   In any case, I have generally found it to be true that when we come into a situation thinking to be teachers, we end up finding that we actually have a lot to learn. 2 Tim 2:7.

10. Ryan Dube
    July 17th, 2008 @ 4:19 pm

    Dr. Brown,

    I understand where you are coming from with respect to Romans 14. I never said anyone was doing wrong. Everyone will be held accountable in the end as we are separately judged by Him. If you remember the phone call on Tues., I said wouldn’t it be nice if we did some of those things, wouldn’t it honor Him. I am not here to judge, I do not have that authority. I am very happy of that fact; cause I probably would not do a very good job at it.

    I hope that I am not bothering you or anyone on your staff by blogging with you. I come here to offer my take on things, but I am also here because I know I don’t have all the answers and I need to put myself in check.

    I appreciate the work that you are trying to do here and abroad.

    2 Tim 2:14

11. Dr Michael L Brown
    July 17th, 2008 @ 4:55 pm

    Bless you, Ryan!

12. Ryan Dube
    July 17th, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

    Michael L. Brown!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What is this I hear about you talking about the feasts and how they point to Yeshua. I thought you said that they were no longer important!

    haha

13. Louis
    July 18th, 2008 @ 9:38 am

    Dube,

    Read Hebrews, you’ll see that we have a new covenant with new rules. Paul often evokes the original covenant with Abraham as the heart of it all, the rest was added later for different reasons.

    Even if we were not under a new and better covenant (which makes the old one obsolete) God still has the priveledge of ammending his own covenant, like he did by adding the feast days.

    We are free to celebrate Jesus in as many ways as we can think of. We can do it creatively, or historically, or something which speaks to our culture. But if you want to celebrate Jesus through the feast days or a new moon festival, then you shoulnt let anyone judge you. And conversly, if you want to celebrate Jesus in creative and new ways (the Psalms are full of exhortations to sing new songs) then you shouldn’t let anyone judge you, and you shouldn’t judge anyone else either. Read through the New Testament a few times and you’ll see it.

14. Dr. Michael L. Brown
    July 18th, 2008 @ 11:48 am

    Ryan,

    Please read my books on the relevant subjects. It appears that you have no clue about what I actually believe.

15. Ryan Dube
    July 18th, 2008 @ 12:54 pm

    Dr. Brown,

    I have listened to your Shmuley debates, I have watched your think it thru program, I have watched your Jewish Voice appearances, I have listened to your lectures on YouTube, I have read what you have available on your ICN Ministries website and I have listened to your radio show. True I have not read your books. My post above was just playful, a light sarcasm. I know that you believe that the feasts point to Yeshua. The only point I wanted to make this whole week, was what I believe is imporant. I think it is paramount that we acknowledge the feasts. I don’t want to push my personal beliefs onto anyone else here. But I think that Christians miss out on a great deal without knowing or ever experiencing one of these customs.

    I know I give these crazy examples, but here is another. I think it is the difference between someone only knowing God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, versus someone knowing Hashem, Ruah Hakodesh, El Shaddai, Adonai, El, Elohim, El Elyon, etc. And what they mean furthermore. To me, and in my eyes only I think that it helps, and will help those “Christians” who want to minister to people of Jewish decent. One cannot speak on or identify with someone who only knows the surface.

    I will not speak on this anymore, take care!

    Thanks for your comments Louis!

16. Anthony
    July 18th, 2008 @ 3:17 pm

    In terms of the holidays I would say that, because of Messiah’s fulfillment of these holidays (Yom Kipur included) they would take on a whole new DEEPER meaning for believers in Messiah who look forward to it’s ultimate culmination in the Messianic Kingdom. While I dont condemn those who choose not to observe these holidays of the LORD, I believe they are missing out on the richness of their relevance.

17. Joshua Harris
    July 18th, 2008 @ 3:45 pm

    Ryan,

    Someone can be illiterate, and culturally ignorant and have a face to face relationship with God, and whether they call Him Lord, Adonai, Tuhan, Senor, or Devan makes no difference, if they are coming to God by the blood of Jesus into a new and living way. To make distinctions like this “knowing God vs. Knowing Hashem” is carnal.
    Being one of those “Christians” who wants to reach Jewish people, they are the object of my blessings, mercy, intercessions; I don’t think that knowing the Hebrew names and their meanings, wearing the beanie, prayer shawl, and blowing the ram’s are the substantial things that will win Jews to the Lord. The evidence of a circumcised heart will go much further than these things. Happy straining.

18. Joshua Harris
    July 18th, 2008 @ 3:47 pm

    Anthony,
    Amen!

19. iseeitdifferently
    July 20th, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

    Romans 14.
    Galatians.
    Colossians.

    Good reading.
    mark jr.

20. Jabez H.
    August 6th, 2008 @ 3:50 am

    In the sense that the Messiah, Yeshua, was sent only to the Jews: that legacy of a suffering Servant, defining of an Author of salvation, and an end of Daniel future promise of the law going forth from Jerusalem to the whole wide world: remain inherent covenant realities first and lastly shared with His people group (as He mentioned of measuring considered actions of others toward “the least of these, my brothers”, while overlooking Mt. Moriah). The Kingdom remains in its mystery condition, described in Mt. 13 until “all is completed as written in the Prophets of Old” where Jews again will see Yeshua (Acts 3:21).

    As written, we have the origin for the Promise, the returning King, and the Kingdom, with its future promise of a restored world through the Chosen Nation’s legacy of faith (for the reigning Messiah). That God upholds His Land, and has not forgotten Jerusalem seats in this world’s future the Messenger and Message from Hebrew and Aramaic prophetic time, place, and purpose–past, present, and future. It was, however, not at Jerusalem that believers were first called Christians.

    Christianity spun off of its roots and introduced wonderous, experiential, and testy change into what was a most feudal pattern of world order, in a sense from the ground up of every believing soul because of heaven’s reality entering everyday international human dedication and imagination. Many resulting changes, regarding the hearts and minds of people calling themselves Christians, as set in various Gentile cultures, have advanced the Kingdom of G-d on earth, and many have tried and tested the newly introduced Jewish Messiamic boundaries on grace, peace, and truth. By inspiration and dedication to various convictions and commitments–even those of a church (of an ecclesia and as organizationally kirk founded)–have had in experience in time to wait upon God as the answer to the deepest desires and needs of every generation. With the new action and history of Discipling the Nations, the original sent forth Apostles, all apparently Jews, begat Christianity.

    Does this mean all that is called Christianity is Jewish, has it right or wrong, or even as it was intended to be? Tracing various movements, creeds, sects, doctrinal debates, and churches’ histories it is apparent that church government is both an enabler of the freedom of the Way Christ ushered in, and can become the exact opposite (in the sense of turning blind eyes to Romans 14, Galations, et al). What those of claims to all the written and promised Covenants of the Lord, named over time in Communities for related and purposed service, and hope for Salvation seem to inherently need–to be indeed like their Master teacher–is the balance of the Master’s outstanding promises coming to pass in individual and faith community lives lived over earth time and through eternity.

    The Age of the Gentiles world dominance has become so relative, and self absorbed–as to its means and methods becoming a kind of disorienting process moving away from simple faith, hope, and love in a Lord of Covenant revelation–that where the flesh stops and the Spirit starts is clouded and uncertain by what captures its attention (if looking to its ever changing values as the guiding Star for humanity). This fact seems to ask for constant dedication and reorientation toward He of whom it is written will frame world history by its initial creation, and final alignment on the Day of the Lord. To some that is a horrible Day, while to many others it is the Great Day of the revealed King and Kingdom. Is this Jewish?

21. Jabez Hart
    August 7th, 2008 @ 1:54 am

    To all, Apologies for long sentences, above. It is what my brain does with little sleep….I hope you catch the essential ideas. –Jabez

22. branderudanders
    October 21st, 2008 @ 8:27 am

    Hello!
    My name is Anders Branderud, I am 23 years and I am from Sweden. I have practised Orthodox Judaism through Netzarim (www.netzarim.co.il) in Ra’anana in Israel (led by the Orthodox Jew Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq), who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – since 2007-05. Before that I was a devoted Christian for 6 years.
    Ryan writes:
    “Yes I am aware that we have not been following his “forever” commandments from the Torah.”

    All of Torah is forever; ha-Sheim – the Creator – is perfect and cannot change!
    So what did the historical Jesus teach? His name was Ribi Yehoshua.

    The research of world-recognized authorities (for example Barrie Wilson; ) in this area implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group) – who according to 4Q MMT (a Scroll found in the Qumran-caves) practised both written and oral Torah.

    That Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee implies that you need to practise his Torah-teachings if want to follow him. You do that by practising Torah (including oral Torah; see “Mishpat” and “Halakhah” at Glossaries in the first page at the above website)!

    Ribi Yehoshua warned for false prophets who don’t produce good fruit = defined as don’t practise the commandments in Torah according to Halakhah (oral Torah; see “Mishpat” and “Halakhah” at Glossaries in the first page at the abvove website). See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6.

    To quote the first century Ribi Yehoshua: “Happy are they to be who hunger and thirst after tzedaqah [justness according to Torah; that is practising the ???? in ???? (Torah)], for they shall be filled of it.” [The Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu 5:3].

    All the best,

    From Anders Branderud

23. Dr Michael Brown
    October 21st, 2008 @ 11:23 am

    Anders,

    Thanks for posting here. May I interact with you candidly and honestly? I have a very different perspective on all this than you do and actually feel there are some very serious errors in the group of which you speak, and since you posted in an open forum, I’d like to ask you some direct questions. Are you willing to respond?

    First, one minor question: Where did you get the word “Ribi”? There is no Hebrew support for such a title anywhere, and it means, “My dispute,” not my teacher. Could you explain this before we go any further?

    To make things perfectly clear: I believe you have embraced error and are actually straying from the truth of the besorah, the gospel. I hope you will be open to hear the truth and to interact with honest questions.

    Dr. Brown

24. Ryan Dube
    October 21st, 2008 @ 12:04 pm

    Joshua,

    It’s true, what you say, ignorance is bliss.

    But, I find that once you have learned a truth, you are then responsible for it.

    Anders,

    I never said I was right, I fall short; I am slowly falling in line with the festivals. The devil has done a great disservice to our nation here in the US. We are set up with false truths and in some cases out right lies.

    One thing that Dr. Brown said that is true, “we’re in trouble.”

    Without the feasts you lose who Yeshua is, they paint a picture or piece together a puzzle. They are meant to honor him, for all time. The minute people start saying that the 1st covenant is abolished or done away with, they start to get into serious trouble.

    The 1st covenant was for natural jews, and the 2nd covenant is for spiritual jews. The 1st covenant is foundation for the 2nd covenant. Both are relevant, and one cannot exist without the other. We have an unchanging G-d, and if he is unchanging, and his word is unchanging, why then do people try to alter it for their needs?

25. Dr. Michael L. Brown
    October 21st, 2008 @ 12:20 pm

    Ryan,

    Please be kind enough to tell me if you would be ready and willing to practice polygamy, in accordance with Torah law, in the event that you were called upon to practice levirate marriage — assuming our laws permitted it. Is that still for today?

    How about stoning a profligate son? City?

    Since you are not willing to alter Torah for your own needs, and since you claim that the new covenant has not changed these laws, are you willing to follow these explicit Torah commands too?

    Lastly, are you sure that godly Christians in history and today who had and have an incredible revelation of Jesus the Messiah but did not and do not observe the feast have really lost who Yeshua is? Doesn’t Paul state clearly that the feasts and Sabbaths are a shadow but the reality is found in Jesus?

    Dr. Brown

26. Ryan Dube
    November 4th, 2008 @ 8:33 am

    Dr. Brown,

    Don’t worry sir, I have not forgot about this one I will respond to you, just doing some research before I do so!

    Ryan

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