10 Responses to “Is Obama Telling the Truth About Same-Sex Marriage?”

1. Fearless
   August 20th, 2008 @ 2:28 am

   I actually listened to this show. We can safely assume Obama is telling the truth about his views on same-sex marriage. The question is to who and which are his real views, not whether he’s telling the truth about them. He is also of course lying about them. History shows that it’s impossible for a politician to get elected if he tells the truth all the time. Barry Goldwater and George McGovern and their miserable vote tallies clearly illustrated that the American public simply will not vote for these kinds of people. So the we have to ask ourselves how important the things our politicians have to lie about to get elected and then to get things done once they are elected really are. McCain told the truth about something that is worse than any lies Obama has spoken. He wants to fight a war on a tactic, not an army, which is what terror really is. This will allow him to define anyone in the world an enemy and then command our soldiers to kill them. I expect fundamentalist Christians to support McCain on this truth he told alone.

2. Geaster32
   August 20th, 2008 @ 11:45 am

   Dr. Brown,
   Is it possible to have your point of view and respect someone else’s? I do not support Obama’s stance on same sex marriage (political stance) but his Christian stance I do support (union between a man and a woman). Saying this, I know some homosexuals and I respect their rights as Americans. I don’t understand why it’s not possible to believe differently from someone and still respect them. I hear Obama’s letter and he was congratulatory, but not necessarily saying this is the way I believe.
   Our president doesn’t set the moral precedence for this country. That’s left up to the citizens of that country.
   I am a bit confused here; you want to protect the right of a fetus. What about the fetus after it’s matured into a conscious person, a decision making person. Do they then lose their right to chose? Isn’t this one of the greatest rights that our messiah gives us? I know the Republican Party stands for less government and more self government. Is this what’s being portrayed when we tell the woman she doesn’t have the right to chose or are we telling them that they’re not capable of making sound decisions? Not sure. So if constitutionally, homosexuals have the right to chose to engage in same sex marriage, is this saying I believe the way they believe or is it simply saying you have that right as an American, as a person? Which is it really saying?
   Just so I’m clear, I believe that marriage is as defined by YhWh, as a union between an adult male and an adult female. I know that everyone doesn’t believe the way I do, so does this mean they should have less rights?
   If we legislate against homosexuality or abortion, will that change the heart of the nation? If not, what’s the purpose? Is our nation pro-life or pro-choice, and has it made a difference? There are 1.4 million violent crimes per year in this country, is this a moral dilemma? Where do you stand on the war? The useless killing in this war, is this a moral dilemma? How do you judge a nation? You judge it on the way they treat their poor, the less fortunate. How do we do this as a nation? There are other social issues that plague us as a nation, why are we stuck on homosexuality and abortion? Are these greater sins?
   In conclusion, I use to be republican but I’ve witnessed a degree of hypocrisy that’s unparalleled. I am now non-partisan. Saying that you’re pro-life and then the church (conservative party) supports someone like Joe Horn (killing in Pasadena Texas). Saying we’re pro-life and supporting a war that was unnecessary and has taken thousands of lives. Something needs to change; it doesn’t occur through legislation, it occurs through prayer, through education.

3. Dr Michael Brown
   August 20th, 2008 @ 12:44 pm

   Geaster32,

   I’ll try to address your questions on the radio in the next day or two, so please listen in of check back on the broadcast online.

4. Ewan
   August 23rd, 2008 @ 7:16 am

   Geaster32,

   Your view is very confused. Homosexuals as individuals have all the same rights as any other individual, even the right to marry but only to a person of the opposite sex. The question is, do we recognise same-sex relationships in law and grant them all the benefits available to married couples? I say that Christians cannot support state recognition for same-sex marriage (or for that matter heterosexual defacto relationships), because this goes against God’s purpose or mandate for the role of civil government. Government is God’s ordained method for maintaining a civil society in a fallen world. It is to restrain evil and promote justice by rewarding the good and punishing the wicked (Romans 13).

   Concerning your comparison of the Iraq war and abortion. You are committing the fallacy of moral equivalence here. You compare the slaughter of millions of innocent pre-born babies to the unintended casualties in a war to remove an oppressive and murderous tyrant and bring freedom to millions of Iraqis?

   You ask “why are we stuck on homosexuality and abortion? Are these greater sins?” True, homosexuality may not be any worse than adultery, but abortion is indeed a greater sin than those others you mention. It is murder of the innocent on an unprecedented scale in all of human history. There are approximately 50 million abortions world wide every year. Murder is the only crime in the New Testament era that still justly carries the death penalty (Genesis 9). Murder is a sin against the very image of God in Man. This is why all true Christians must be against abortion and place far more importance on this issue than any other social issue. This is also why I say that Obama is either pro-abortion or he is a Christian. He can’t be both unless he is extremely ignorant of what abortion actually involves, and I don’t believe he is that stupid.

5. Ewan
   August 24th, 2008 @ 12:47 am

   More here about Obama and abortion.

6. Fearless
   August 24th, 2008 @ 2:48 pm

   Ewan,
   You said: Your view is very confused. Homosexuals as individuals have all the same rights as any other individual, even the right to marry but only to a person of the opposite sex.

   Fearless says: Wrong. Homosexuals have the right to marry people of the same sex now. Or don’t you read the paper?

   You said: The question is, do we recognise same-sex relationships in law and grant them all the benefits available to married couples? I say that Christians cannot support state recognition for same-sex marriage (or for that matter heterosexual defacto relationships), because this goes against God’s purpose or mandate for the role of civil government. Government is God’s ordained method for maintaining a civil society in a fallen world. It is to restrain evil and promote justice by rewarding the good and punishing the wicked (Romans 13).

   Fearless says: Wrong again. Government is man’s way of of preventing religion and religious people from telling the rest of us how we should live. Government protects us from God belief unless we live in a theocracy where it forces beliefs on people. Like in Saudi Arabia, the model Christians would like to use for the United States’ form of government.

   You said: Concerning your comparison of the Iraq war and abortion. You are committing the fallacy of moral equivalence here. You compare the slaughter of millions of innocent pre-born babies to the unintended casualties in a war to remove an oppressive and murderous tyrant and bring freedom to millions of Iraqis?

   Fearless says: Right. We sent our soldiers to Iraq to kill people by accident. Sure we did. The evangelical Christian George Bush is the murderous tyrant who makes Hussein look like a boy scout.

   You said: You ask “why are we stuck on homosexuality and abortion? Are these greater sins?” True, homosexuality may not be any worse than adultery, but abortion is indeed a greater sin than those others you mention. It is murder of the innocent on an unprecedented scale in all of human history. There are approximately 50 million abortions world wide every year. Murder is the only crime in the New Testament era that still justly carries the death penalty (Genesis 9). Murder is a sin against the very image of God in Man.

   Fearless says: Abortion is not murder. Blowing up abortion clinics is murder though. “More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the text that authorized them remains.” – Mark Twain

   You said: This is why all true Christians must be against abortion and place far more importance on this issue than any other social issue. This is also why I say that Obama is either pro-abortion or he is a Christian. He can’t be both unless he is extremely ignorant of what abortion actually involves, and I don’t believe he is that stupid.

   Fearless says: I hope Obama rejects his Christianity when he gets to the White House as many presidents have before him. He needed to claim he was a Christian to get elected but I can’t see how a man that intelligent and educated could possibly believe in the Christian system of dogmatic superstitions. Very few of our president ever have. Until we start electing atheists as presidents there will never be a good president in the White House or any chance for world peace.

7. Marcus French
   August 25th, 2008 @ 11:26 pm

   FYI: Dr. Brown responded to Geaster32′s post from August 20 on the “Can We Really Legislate Morality?” show on 8/20/08.

8. Ewan
   August 26th, 2008 @ 7:18 am

   Thanks, Marcus. I have listened to that program now.

   In reply to the rant by Fearless, I would just add that government is an invention of God’s, not an invention of man’s (The foundation is to be found in the implication of Genesis 9:6 and its role is explicitly covered in Romans 13). When Christians wake up to the fact that civil government is God’s idea, then we might see them pay a bit more attention to politics instead of leaving it all up to the atheists. See also the discussion on the Can we Legislate Morality thread.

9. Ewan
   September 10th, 2008 @ 8:45 am

   Marcus, Can you post a link please to the Obama letter that Dr. Brown read out on this show?

10. Marcus French
    September 10th, 2008 @ 9:19 am

    Ewan,

    Here’s the actual link to the Democratic GLBT site (scroll down for the letter): http://www.alicebtoklas.org/abt/index.asp

    Here’s a secondary report on the letter and a subsequent letter: http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=33756

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