8 Responses to “Should the Church Expose Personal Sins?”

1. Bill Fawcett
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 10:51 am

   Excellent show. I only wish I could get to the internet at 7pm on a regular basis to listen and comment in real time.

   A lot of people think that “grace” means God winking at our sin. Well they don’t say it taht way, but that’s what they mean. Some call it “greasy grace.”

   A better understanding of God’s grace is his enabling power to WALK AWAY FROM SIN.

   Me thinks this woman doth protest too much. If she wants to be a follower of Jesus she might want to recieve God’s forgiveness and GO AND SIN NO MORE. She needs to make a heart decision to leave this adulterous relationship. Or make a heart decision to walk away from God and his church, live in sin and ultimately burn in hell for eternity.

   The problem today is that sin has been tolerated too much in the church today, often by church leaders who can’t speak out against it because of thier own private sins. Or they have bought into the lie that grace means looking the other way. And so people become conditioned to this enviroment. When sin is exposed, they seem to value their relationships with others (horizontal) so much that they want to retain the “fellowship” with others and their sin as well. God seems to be left out of the equation.

   Where is the fear of God?

   The church today should not only expose sin (after other avenues are thoughtfully exhausted) but should, along with shunning, turn such individuals over to satan so that he can work them over.

   This is why the selection of leaders in the church is so critical. They need not only wisdom but intestinal fortitude. Backbone.

   It is true that the person being shunned may not repent. But it is also true that getting such unrepentant sinners out of the congregation may save others from being sucked into sin, and will certainly allow the Holy Spirit to work more fully within those who remain.

   The fact that this woman is now trying to bring her case into the public forum reveals a deeper issue of arrogance, which seems to be behind just about every other sin. I would not stand next to her in a lightning storm.

   Looking at this from another perspective, we are in grave danger of losing our right to free association. Part of this concept is the right to refuse membership in organizations. Already groups such as the Boy Scouts have been under attack for this issue. On the horizon is the prospect of government requiring churches to employ persons involved in sinful behaviour. If the slippery slope continues, the biblical practice of church disciplen will be something we only read about in history books.

2. john
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

   I havent listened to the program yet..

   If a person’s personal sin has affected the public then repentance has to come in public(There is a spiritual and a natural aspect as to why it is so).In that context Yes; the church needs to expose personal sins.

3. Bill Fawcett
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 4:49 pm

   John,

   All sin in the congreation hurts the corporate body. Talk about quenching the spirit – just bring a little sin into the camp.

   New Testament discipline involves tellin it to the church if the person does not repent when confronted privately. That’s the issue under discussion in this program.

   Its a good one – take a listen.

   As to public confession and/or repentance. Indeed there is a place for public confession and your point is taken.

4. Mwiya
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 5:51 pm

   Paul’s confrontation with Peter is a great example of how to confront error in the Assembly. Also I think we should realise that there is a time and place for every thing! We all sin and so obviously some personal sins only God knows and we confess them to Him. Obviously confessing sins to one another is great because it allows for transparency, accountability as well as forming a bond of trust! If a person comes in secret to confess his/ her sins to us so that we make give counsel we should give it, pray with them! Have them genuinly ask God for forgiveness and I think we can encourage them by telling them God has forgiven their sins.

   I have a question though. Do you think as believers we have to power to forgive sins. If so, do we do it at will? Or do you think we have to have a believer confess their sins to God in faith and then we confirm the forgiveness of their sins in accordance to the word which says “God is faithful and just to forgive sins if we confess them.” That way we are witnesses and not really the person really forgiving the sins. Do you think that is how this is to be done? Or is this something that was for the apostle’s alone? Or even for Messiah alone, and if so how do we interpret His word’s concerning the matter?

5. john
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 7:15 pm

   Bill
   Yes,if the person is unrepentant.Then also you are faced with the issue of what sins should be made public and what sins dont fall under that category.
   For example, what do you do when a person has unforgiveness and refuses to forgive ?This brings us back to the point which is, does the offense that is commited harmful to others or has the potential to harm others.
   If a believer falls into immorality( or any sin considered as major ones in the church) i dont see any reason why that should be exposed if the person repents.Now its a different scenario, if because of that sin some have been mislead.

   Mwiya
   This is how i understand Jesus telling his disciples that “whosever sins you forgive it will be forgiven them”.
   I think you can forgive and release people when the offense is directed towards you and God will or can forgive them(under most circumstances).
   If you are standing in the gap for others and if the Spirit leads you to repent on behalf of their sins then in that context you can relase them of their sins.
   Also in the context were God wants you to release forgivenss to certain individuals or groups and you are in a place of authority to do that.

   I wouldnt be presumptous going about telling people they are forgiven.
   I think our heart should always be “Father forgive them” and when we are sure on God’s intent on the matter we can say “Your sins are forgiven”.

6. john
   January 2nd, 2009 @ 9:35 pm

   Bill
   I just reread your post
   It could be argued that all sin causes damage to others.So i am rephrasing what i said earlier
   ( My earlier point-This brings us back to the point which is, does the offense that is commited harmful to others or has the potential to harm others) .
   Now-Not every offense requires to be adressed in a public setting.

   There are several sins the Bible is more severe on than others and they are worthy of taking note to be adressed.
   So would you apply the same measure of discipline to someone who struggles with unforgiveness or envy?
   If so we wouldnt have too many people in churches today

   You said:
   (New Testament discipline involves telling it to the church if the person does not repent when confronted privately)

   Doesnt that scripture apply in the context of a brother sinning against you or offending you personally by his actions?
   Paul had the Corinthian church remove somebody with gross misconduct.
   Other than that i dont see how these scriptures can be generally applied to every failing (other than some more specific areas of discipline mentioned).

7. Mwiya
   January 3rd, 2009 @ 5:55 am

   John,

   Thanks, that makes a lot of sense the way you put it. That statement by Jesus always got me thinking. I could never understand it because we don’t see the apostle’s going around telling people they’re forgiven so it always got me thinking “what does this mean?” But you’ve put it in the correct perspective. We forgive people’s sins against us, and Jesus will forgive them also. Its amazing how The Lord takes the things that happens to us on such a personal level. Its like the “you fed me when I was hungry, clothed me when I was naked…..if you did this to my brothers you did it to me..” Thats amazing to me how affectionate the Lord is towards his brethren!! This always got me thinking “is there any credence to the catholic practice of priests forgiving sins?” Every thing in me said no on account that the sins people confess are offenses to God and there is no set precedent for disciple’s actually like said before going out to tell people they are forgiven. It says we confess those sins to God!

   I do think that discipline in the assemblies is pretty laid out in the NT. You’ve mentioned both the example’s Jesus set which I think was carried out in the Corinthian case in 1 Corinthians. I think that pretty much sets it straight. The guy in the corinthian case was later brought back into the fold after chastisement. So I think thats is probably important. That the person in question be repentant!

   I think generally a lot of our assembly leaders lack a strong back bone when it comes to discipline. Lets consider Ezra who made all the Israelites divorce their foreign women so that the nation did not fall into the sorts of sin it previously did because of the inter-marriages between Jews and their pagan neighbors (Solomon is a prime case study of such a situation).
   Do you think today. If a brother divorced his wife (say for a small issue) and then re-married another woman. Do you think elders and pastors today (generally speaking) would tell him to put out the woman he is now commiting adultery with and either take back his true wife or remain unmarried? Do you think today elders would take such a stance? Because I think part of the problem is some leaders lack of courage! I think it would be appropriate for leaders to rend their clothing, and mourn and fast in repentence for some time considering the nonsense that we (i include myself) are so apathetic to.

8. john
   January 3rd, 2009 @ 2:01 pm

   Mwiya,
   On forgiving sins..
   Another instance were i’ve seen preachers do it (i think its okay in cases were people have genuinely repented and placed their faith in God) is after the alter call.
   After leading people to Christ they declare “Your sins are Forgiven”.
   Again with the loss of truths on real repentance and genuine faith in God i dont see how that can be commonly used as is so often done today.

   As far as adultery and divorce goes,it just shows how far we have strayed away from the truth in certain areas.However there is room for mercy and Grace because of the widespread lack of a revelation on God’s Holiness and esp revelation in that particular area .
   When there has been ample revelation on a particular truth and people dont live up to it,their judgement in that area would be immediate or greater than someone who lacks knowledge of that truth.
   So somethings even though might not be right can become permissible in that context

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