August 5, 2009
August 5, 2009 | 16 Comments
A Once Saved Always Saved Murder?
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16 Responses to “August 5, 2009”
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August 6th, 2009 @ 9:58 pm
Well I always knew this was a dangerous doctrine , I wonder how the Person feels that taught him that garbage. It’s noway a true believer can teach foolshness like that and thinks he have any security in Christ. He need and all that teach this need to repent and ask God to show them the right way in God’s Word. God help all those that suffered loss. I believe that this teaching will produce more of the same because it gives them a license to kill per say. It’s a lot like suicide bombing, but remember our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost harms it God will destroy.
August 6th, 2009 @ 10:01 pm
I meant to say in my previous comment , whoever harms it God shall destroy,sorry!
August 7th, 2009 @ 7:52 am
This takes that doctrine a bit far, but you will find people who stretch every different belief over the edge. When it comes to sin that brings harm to others, it is evidence of heart issues. Whether it is backbiting or murder. Do I belive in once saved always saved? I don’t really know. I believe the ONLY salvation for any of us is the grace of God and not our works. If we are walking it just to make our way to heaven we may as well count ourselves out. I hate all the arguing over minimal aspects of the doctrine. Yet, as a frail human I still felt the need to put in my opinion and bring in some balance. I think people can believe either way as long as they know they can’t earn their own way. I do find myself amazed at how the Christian community is less apt to listen to other opinions without always having to be right though.
August 7th, 2009 @ 9:10 am
So do you say that someone who was truely born again changed heart can then walk away from God and lose their salvation
August 7th, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
I was taught that since we are not perfect, we must daily ask God for forgiveness. We must be able to understand HIS word and then we will get Wisdon amd understanding from HIS word. First, if you commit suicide you can not be forgiven. You ask for forgiveness after the fact. If you live a sinful life, and die, you do not get to go to see the Father, you go to HELL. If you are gay, God specifically states, no man sleeps with a man and no woman with another woman. So, if you die within this sin and keep on living it, you do not go to Heaven, you go to HELL.
Plus, I do not beleive that if this man killed these people, believing he will go to heaven. If he had not lived a sinless life, and killed, he is going to HELL.
God only forgives those who truly feel that the Holy Ghost has come into their lives when they confessed their sins to the Father and asked through the name of JESUS, will the Father even forgive you. Jesus said, “No one comes to the Father, except through me.” Many people do not understand that. Jesus lives within us. We are the temple, we must keep our temple as clean and as holy as possible or Jesus will not live in our hearts.
Jesus did die for all the sins of the EARTH. He just did not die for us to sin and it automatically be forgiven. You still have to go to the Father and ask forgiveness and that way is to believe in John 3:16 that God gave His only begotten son so that whosover believeth in Him shall have everlasting life. WE MUST BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY, AND ALL THE WORDS OF GOD. IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND PLEASE FIND A CHURCH AND GET HELP.
Thank God for people lie Michael Brown.
August 7th, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
People can call what I am about to write Lordship Salvation if they wish, and yell at me and call me a heretic who is teaching salvation by works, but quite frankly I don’t care.
As professing Christians, even before one gets saved or during the conversion process one must come to realize that Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. A person has to understand this as the apostiles taught it in the days they where preaching. Paul says we must confess Jesus as Lord (even Adonai) and believe in our Hearts God raised him from the dead…In other words If our “conversion” doesn’t include knowing that Jesus is to become your master and your God, your confession of faith means nothing, and if you do not walk in this knowledge striving everyday to make Jesus the master putting yourself in submission to him (because the devil trys to lead us astray as does our flesh) You will not be sactified… Santification is a process, and we will fall intio sin at times, but thanks be to God that he will chasten us as sons and send his Holy Spirit whom if we don’t grieve or quench will continue doing work in us and sancify us, Really freinds the only work we are called to is to walk in or live by the Spirit, we are called to Pray and Study and work out our own salvation (with God, Because it is he who does the work in us we just have to be willing participants until the day we die)
August 9th, 2009 @ 3:40 am
Phyllis, understand that suicide is not an unforgiveable sin. There is only one unforgiveable sin, and that is not it. Even Judas could have repented, he of all people should have known this, but he didn’t, anyways, just thought I would share that little tidbit…
If this murderer was “saved”, meaning he at one point in his adult life, surrendered his life to walk with the Spirit, then he will suffer worse than a murderer who has not been “saved”. For he willingly went against the grain and committed those sins.
August 10th, 2009 @ 2:47 pm
Phyllis, I must say that I used to believe that suicide was an unforgiveable sin. Of course, scripture does not teach this.
On July 6, 1978, my older brother (and my only sibling) killed himself. When I was told he had committed suicide, my first thought was “Oh, my God, he’s in hell!” Words can’t express the physical, emotional and mental anguish I felt but I was about to learn something about God’s mercy that can’t really be taught.
Late that night, two of my mother’s sisters arrived from out of town and they prayed with my mother, step-father and myself. To my astonishment, my mother began to laugh! That’s right – laugh. Her hands were raised to heaven and she cried out, ”God has healed my broken heart!”
I didn’t feel that assurance and I had lots of trouble going to sleep that night. When I finally did doze off, I had a dream. I saw a beautiful, green meadow with several hills. My brother, Chris was running up to me in my dream and I’d never seen him so excited and happy. He had the most beautiful smile on his face and as he was approaching me, he kept glancing back to where he was coming from. When he got right up to my face he said, “It’s so much better than you told me it was!”
God’s ways are not our ways. His mercies are new every morning and we see only in part. God changed my theology that night over thirty years ago. There was an altar call given at my brother’s funeral and several people were born again and the Lord used my mother to heal several people during that time. The pastor of our church came to visit the family the day after Chris’ death and he was shocked at what he saw. We were at peace and praising God for His mercy and goodness. When the pastor opened the door to leave he said, “If I come across anyone that is grieving, I’ll send them over.”
My mother wrote a short book about the entire experience but no publisher wanted any part of it. Before she died, she was able to pay a woman to print a few copies of the book at my mother’s expense.
August 12th, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
[...] week, Nick Norelli had a post, Michael Brown on ‘Once Saved Always Saved’, which links to an episode of Michael Brown’s radio show. Michael Brown talks about a man who killed women at a health club. Prior to the murder, the man [...]
August 19th, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
what a weighty subject and one to take seriouly! But we as Christians know pr at least have grasped the scriptures enough to understand and realize salvation is a gift not of works lest anyone should boast, so i cerntainly believe that as we exercise our relations here on earth with others, our relationship with God is paralled to the degree of expressing our love to him with a fruit ful relationship. we are to live every day by grace recognizing our sin and repent when needed! but to habitually sin does not show a bornagain nature, a second look is in need to our relationship with Jesus, we all sin but a repentant heart is nessesary! God speed to all who believe, and mercy to all who recognize our short comings.
August 19th, 2009 @ 4:18 pm
Dr. Brown is correct in stating that a true believer can not continue to live a life of perputual unrepent sin and have any sort of assurance that he/she is a true believer in Christ. The bible does teach that God is the author and perfector of our faith. But a person with real genuine faith will bear much fruit.
The reformed teaching is the doctrine of the “Perseverance of the Saints” and when called ”Once saved always saved” only shows a partial part of the truth.
In the case of the murderer in pennsylvania his life was full of unrepentant hatred towards women and did not understand the doctrine of “once saved always saved”
September 17th, 2009 @ 11:20 am
The excerpt Dr. Brown read from the book:
“You don’t have the ability or power to remove the work of God no matter how evil you are…no power to cancel it no matter what. You’d have to be arrogant to believe that”
As a statement of fact…as a message from divine viewpoint it is fundamentally true.
However, the issue is not whether this statement is deceptive or dangerous, but rather what was the killer’s intent.
As to any view that holds that this statement is a permission slip to be able to do as one wants, then it is that mindset which is under delusion. That person obviously does not recognize the full counsel of God concerning this doctrine or the ramifications of his own spiritual condition.
It’s plain and simple that if one cannot say the devil made me do it, then one cannot also say that it is this statement which gave him the incentive to finally go through with this despicable act when it is he who is really culpable.
However, any statement that supposedly derives from the Word of God should be subject to the Word of God as to whether it is true or not, not to be judged from a tragic experience that rationalizes away its full contextual basis, excluding essential integral spiritual precepts. Otherwise other statements supposedly based on the Word or even scripture itself can be considered deceptive or dangerous by virtue of any exploitative abuse. Peter never mentioned that Paul should have worded his doctrines in a different way lest it be considered deceptive or dangerous…but he spoke against those who chose to twist the meaning behind his words, being condemned unto their own destruction.
One can also find much abuse stemming from the doctrine that one can lose their salvation, but again, the doctrine should be held up to the light of God’s word as to whether it is true or not true, and not necessarily the casualties that result from it.
Every statement supposedly derived from scripture should be given the benefit of being examined by the full counsel of God and not be condemned in a reactionary posture just because there are those who choose to skew the partial quote or diminish its full spiritual context to suit their own carnal or demonic purposes.
September 17th, 2009 @ 11:39 am
Joe,
If you’ll listen to the broadcast again, you’ll see that I read much more than that quote, and what I read was actually erroneous.
Thanks for your comments!
September 19th, 2009 @ 8:27 pm
[...] day after the shootings, Dr. Brown addressed the murder and these words on his Line of Fire radio show (the show is appropriately titled “A Once Saved Always Saved Murder?”). The audio is [...]
January 5th, 2010 @ 6:10 am
Hi.
I found your Web Site by Google
And I wish you the best you can get,
the peace of God through Jesus Christ.
Welcome to visit my Site.
Allan Svensson, Sweden
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM
Once saved – always saved?
The doctrine of election, which William M. Branham preached,
that the elected cannot fall away from the Lord, it can entice
people into a false safety, which can be their fall. Branham’s
doctrine of the election does not agree with Ezekiel 33:12-19
or Rom. 11:17-22.
If the elected ones cannot become lost, why then are there so
many warnings in the Bible? Why did Jesus warn us about
false teachers and false prophets, if it is impossible that the
elected ones become lost?
If it is no risk to lose our salvation, then we do not need to
hold us awake or be careful against false teachers. Why then
are Israel’s sins and punishments under their wandering through
the desert, written down as warnings for us? Why then did Paul
write, “Now all these things happened unto them for examples:
and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of
the world are coming. Wherefore let him that thinketh he
standeth take heed lest he falls.” 1 Cor. 10:1-12.
A usual reason that Christians fall away from the Lord, is that
they follow false doctrines, which lead away from the sincere
faithfulness to the Lord. They believe more on preachers and
priests than on the Bible.
A remarkable phenomenon is, that the most resistance against
revival comes from those Christians who have been praying for
revival during many years. They have prayed for revival, but
when the answer to prayers comes, then they become angry.
They do not like to hear the truth of the Assembly of God, the
Body of Christ. Instead to praise Jesus, they are irritated and
afraid. Why? They are spiritually blinded of Satans false
assembly doctrine. They do not have the knowledge of the
Assembly of God. This truth has never been preached in the
churches.
Churches and denominations are Satan’s tools to hold control
over the Christians. The purpose of the churches is that with
false doctrine defend churches and denominations, and to hold
their members in religious slavery, and hinder them to
understand God’s word.
In the time of the apostles any church did not exist, and
therefore the word “church” does not occur in the Bible.
Everywhere in your English Bible where you see the word
“church” it is a grave translation error. It ought to be
“assembly”.
As you can see in my Web site, I am no member in any
church. In the year 1965 I left Babylon the great, and since
then I have been outside of all churches and denominations,
according to the command of the Lord. Rev. 18:4.
This command of the Lord is the most powerful revival
message we can find in the Bible. Yet, this truth of the Bible
has not been preached among God’s people, and therefore the
Christians are entirely unprepared for Jesus’ coming. Only
few Christians have obeyed this command of the Lord to
come out of the great Babylon.
Just this is revival, that all God’s people become free from
all churches and denominations, the great Babylon. Many
preachers are speaking that Jesus shall come, but they do
nothing to prepare themselves.
On my Homepage I have written very much about the
Assembly of God and about churches and denominations.
It is very urgent that all God’s people get the knowledge
of this.
None be saved by works of the law, Gal. 2:16,
and none be saved without works of faith. Matt. 7:21-23.
Prepare you to meet Jesus!
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/PREPARE.HTM
Evil spirits in the churches
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SPIRITS.HTM
Why did the Pentecostal Revival take an end?
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM#end
What does hinder the Antichrist to appear?
What is the Restrainer?
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM#Antichrist
Jesus cannot come today because God’s people are not ready
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/TODAY.HTM
July 21st, 2011 @ 11:38 pm
I hope perhaps some Tuesday on the day you discuss doctrine, perhaps you could discuss the strong points of Once Saved Always Saved and the dangerous points and where you differ.
Thanks.