14 Responses to “September 21, 2009”

1. Echad
   September 21st, 2009 @ 7:10 pm

   For the second topic/question, I actually answered that here: http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/2008/03/08/are-we-living-in-the-last-days/comment-page-1/#comment-7513 
   If anyone is interested in my opinion.

2. Kyle L.
   September 21st, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

   I think Jesus is coming back in my or my children’s life time. My grand kids at the most. The world around us is not looking too good at this point.

3. Jabez H.
   September 22nd, 2009 @ 12:23 am

   These matters of future and present hope must be considered in reference to Revl. 20, and the order of events there as to a first resurrection of His people who did not die in their sins, or, as living, do not abide alone.   Acts 3:21 is also relevant to answering when “that Day” will happen once the heavens do not hold back the Return, after the fulfillment of “all written in the Prophets of Old,” where we must study to understand what is coming to pass as it happens.   The question now is how do I prepare the Way of the Lord, as to all that is written for the People of the Book in the chosen Land, and the believers among the Nations?

4. Jabez H.
   September 22nd, 2009 @ 12:26 am

   The gift of prophecy and other leadership roles are easily proven in scripture; Apostleship though is not listed as a gift, but a foundation.  We heed the words of the Apostle’s teaching because they were sent for a purpose from the Source of our Faith.

5. Jabez H.
   September 22nd, 2009 @ 12:31 am

   I.E. the word of the Apostles’ teaching.  They help frame too the beginning of the Witnessed New Covenant testimony, and the foundation stones of the Eternal City reframing life as it is known today at the end.  There is a difference between the Return and the End.  Yeshua set out to tell us of these and their difference before his Ascension.

6. Joshua Harris
   September 25th, 2009 @ 1:04 am

   I am looking for Jesus to come back in my life time, but I would not be altogether shocked if there are a couple hundred years of human history left.

   Apostle and Prophets are for today. most who are running around with the recognition as ‘apostle’ and ‘prophet’ are neither. having the buzzword title and precious little reality of what is apostolic, and prophetic.
   Adoniram Judson, Hudson Taylor, Watchman Nee, Bakht Singh are examples of apostles in as much as they were pioneer church planters. While there are other aspects of apostolic ministry like impartation and oversight, with out the aspect of pioneer church planter one is not and cannot be an apostle.

   False prophets? Jesus warned there would be many in the last days. Not a few but many. He did not warn merely of a false prophetic spirit, but of false prophets. In as much as 90% or better of the ministries in the world are in the west, doesn’t it fall on grounds of common sense that most of that ‘many’ that we are warned about are here in the US?
   I think the prophetic movements have introduced heresy in the idea that people can prophecy at will, with out the moving of the Spirit. If someone is taught to prophecy at will without the moving of the Spirit of God, how long do they practice that way before they open themselves up to spirits of divination? I have experienced prophecy where the power of God is evidently there and bearing witness to what was being spoken/ and I have experienced people prophesying and that with out any sense of the presence of God whatsoever. My observation in the general difference between the two is one has a belief that it is as God wills, with the moving of the Spirit that they prophecy; and the other believes a christian can prophecy at will without the moving of the Spirit.

   I really like and appreciate what Dr. Brown said on this show toward the end about not quenching the Spirit’s fire, and testing all things. I definitely don’t want to be a wet blanket to anyone’s faith at all. We ought to be anticipating God to move in all His gifts, and desire for him to use us to edify the church with the gifts in some way every time we gather.
   My $.02

7. Jabez H.
   September 27th, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

   Apostles are not listed among the spiritual gifts of the NT.  They are called a foundational ministry, along with Prophets, the latter of whom are listed among the possibilities of ongoing spiritual gifting of the NT.  The Apostles further are listed as the foundations for ministry and an authentic witness, thus the guarantors of the faith, in the final book of the NT.  As they were uniquely chosen and sent by the source, as is apparent in their own testimony as to their choosing and sending: the elements of their witness, and source of instruction being both informationally and life observation of the Messiah based, it remains doubtful that such a ministry can then be replicated.  Why is this important?  The same reason that we have only one sourceas to being the real Messiah, in the chosen time frame and for the origins of our faith.  The sourced Apostles were the group that the book of Acts refers to as where the teaching for its witness came from,  i.e., the recorded church shared “The Apostles’ teaching.”  Further, their unique witness discerned and described who and what represented the authentic message of the Gospel, where “we do not preach ourselves, but Christ, and our selves as your servants for his sake.”

   With the challenges of false witness, false teachers, and heresy, which crept into the first and second centry churches, having a vital source and sources for the authenticity of the faith carried into the Nations was carefully established by Yeshua before he ascended to his heavenly abode.  The words too on his Return, and the End are carefully recorded by the historial Luke, and the Apostles for our benefit.  Something has to be cast in stone for our considered reference and regard, and that is the witness and word of the Apostles.

8. Jabez H.
   September 27th, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

   As for the Return of the Lord, there are many qualifiers.  A read of Zech., Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezkl., and the Revelation of John, in addition to what the Lord and the Apostles say on the subject is vital. All must be read and one view that binds these together that stands out is Peter’s word to his Nation, chosen for the Messiah’s future promise, as it would be extended to today’s reestablished Jerusalem, the capitol of Israel.  See Acts 3:21. The heavens hold back Yeshua until that scripture, in its broad reference, is fulfilled.
   Also, in Acts 1 when asked by the Apostles when the time was for the restoration of Israel, Jesus stated that that was up to the Father as to his establishments of times and seasons.  A read of Zech. Mt. 24 and 25, Lk 21, and Revelation 20 grants a time frame for the return before a 1000 year reign of the Messiah Prince (see Ezkl) for establishing his promises given to the Prophets of Old, in reference to Jerusalem, the Land, and the covenants promises He has made.  He returns for and with his saints, and for what purposes?  Make a list from a reading of the literature.  We are not yet finding all details in place for the return, though the season of a reestablished Jewish people in the Land is a primary indicator of a Biblically referenced restoration process there currently going on.

   What is needed?  1) His people, the Jews in the Land, still coming in, 2) The Nation. as ”created in a Day,” technically in 1948, 3) changes to present day Jerusalem in reference to its present day Gentile occupation of his “Holy Mountain”, for other use, 4) the restoration of “all things” spoken by the Holy Prophets of Old, 5) An active Temple, the Jury is mixed on this one, 6) new Holiness and devotion to the God of Israel without pagan or idolatrous preoccupation among the chosen people of the Prophets reference as an element of the ongoing restoration of Israel, 7) an expectancy, which includes a present tense reference to Yeshua by the chosen Nation for the occupation of the throne of the House of David there as to Yeshua being “blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord” (stated as likely being coincidental with his actual Return).

   The blessed Hope is in the details, many of which are yet to happen, and, as recorded, in reference to the Land, the City, the Book, and the People.   Yeshua then cannot come at any moment at this juncture, but as prophecy is completed, conditions respecting righteousness are raised along with a tension in this world about that reality, and the enemy of truth attempts its usurpage.  God is sovereign and will do what is required of Him throgh Oracles and promises given in reference to his covenants made throughout the Tenach and the New Testament.  Our challenge is to be up on these in order to agree with their orchestration and completions as they occur, increase our Awe of the written word becoming the living word, and to find the balance needed to have enough oil to light our lamps balanced with appying the Way of the Golden Rule in all our days.

9. Jabez H.
   September 28th, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

   Has Zech. 8-14 been fulfilled?  Why is it quoted in the Gospels?  Though from Ezra’s time do not its references for regathering extend far beyond Babylon? It references too to the “Holy Mountain” changed to some permanent blessing, aren’t these bigger in scope than the early or late second Temple reconstructions?  Prophecy, though given in one timeframe with perhaps one intended scope, seems to stretch its maker’s words beyond immediacy and into the Messianic Hope God established for Israel.

10. Bill Fawcett
    October 2nd, 2009 @ 8:57 am

    I too look at apostles as ones who primarily are tasked with church planting and pioneering. And so I would agrre that the Apostolic (and Prophetic) ministires have never ceased and continue today.

    I believe the 5-fold (or 4-fold if you go for “pastor-teacher”) ministries define /servant/ gifts.

    What I take issue with is the concept of something new- apparently to many God has suddenly redefined these gifts. Or perhaps MAN has redefined these gifts, because they involve ruling power and authority. As in “pope.”

    Evidenced by these quotes from men who many consider to be apostles today:

    “There are major changes in the “wind” right now. For the last several years people have started to gather around fathers instead of doctrine. ”

    “My answer is that first God was probably waiting until the government of the church got into place on the foundation of apostles and prophets, which did occur beginning in 2001.”

    To look at the agenda of the N.A.R. further you will also discover that even as they believe in territorial spirits, they also believe in territorial apostles. To which I respond “why do we have to have a ying/yang for everything?”

    Its a funny world.

11. Jabez H.
    October 2nd, 2009 @ 9:59 am

    II Corithians 4, 5 and 6 is the Biblical position on Apostles.

12. Jabez H.
    October 2nd, 2009 @ 9:59 am

    Continuing Prophecy in and to the Church is the Biblical position on NT prophets.

13. Jabez H.
    October 2nd, 2009 @ 10:00 am

    It all has to do with coming to the full measure of the Messiah in and among us.

14. Jabez H.
    October 2nd, 2009 @ 10:39 am

    There is one Messiah, one hope, one baptism so related to that Hope, and the sending of the Ruach Ha Kodesh to his own. What is to be replicated from the first century is clear enough in scripture:

    GAL 1:1 Paul, an apostle–sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

    II Cor 4 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

    2CO 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

    So be it, whether hung up on titles or not so.

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