November 9, 2009
God’s Solution to the Problems of the World
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Why I Am Not a Calvinist – Part 1
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Dr. Brown, thank you for talking on this top. For a long time, I’d thought discussing the issue of Calvinism vs. Arminianism was on the periphery of Christianity, and really took away from what our focus needed to be, somewhat predicated on Paul’s admonition to having nothing to do with foolish arguments. In other words, my discussions of the topic with other pretty much led nowhere in the end, just a case of “I’m right vs. you’re wrong” on either side of the equation. However, in listening today, my perspective has changed, and helped me to see things in a different like. Before I get to how that happened, I’d like to give an illustration of how a clarification about a totally unrelated, very simple issue set me free, and then how it applies here. In other words, the truth and understanding the truth matters. I grew up non-Christian, and often in school, the question would come up, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Simple question, but since I did not know the answer as a non-Christian, it brought confusion and lack of clarity in my understanding which carried over even after a became a Christian. After having been a Christian for over 20 years, I was sitting in a Sunday school class and the teacher was teaching and it hit me – the chicken came first! God created animals first. Not having clarity about so simple and seemingly foolish a question led to an unconcious undermining, to some degree, of my belief in the authority of Scripture. Once that issue was dislodged out of my understanding, it set me free to believe what the Bible said about creation. Fast forward to this issue you’re discussing. My brother is a staunch Reformed Baptist. Last week we discussed an individual we grew up with who became a Christian. My brother said, he always seemed to have heart for people, which kind of surprised me. One, becuase Calvinists believe in total deprativity, but second, because I think he was implying that there was a prevenient grace on this guy to care, and that was God electing him. For me, the practical effect of having this view is not to appreciate what non-Christians do well, specifically for me, in the workplace. In other words, there are people I work with who do a good job who are not Christians who need to be recognized for doing a good job – give honor to whom honor is due. But having the view that some are selected and some are not carries with it the implication, more often than not, that many won’t make it (narrow is the road, and few find it), and therefore, a downward look on those who might not make it, because God has damned them. Because God has taken this view (in their estimation), in sincerely wanting to be like God, they unconciously adopt this view (as I have done in part) and therefore look down on others because they are the elect (by virtue of being saved), and others are not. It belies a certain arrogance in the end. This is a rather autobiograhical take on this and somewhat subjective in some sense, yet at the same time, I see that if my/our understanding is not clear about this, it does have practical implications, because it will affect the way we see others, and how we act toward others, and whether or not we witness to them with the right heart. This is a very important issue!
To our Calvinist friends,
I would like to present food for thought and to ask you a couple specific questions hoping to get some honest answers regarding your viewpoint of “once saved, always saved.”
Jesus spoke a parable as recorded in Luke 15, pertaining to a story of what is commonly known as the “prodigal son.” From a simple overview, we read where the younger son decides to leave his father’s house, taking along with his inheritance, to pursue a life of wasteful living, thus engaging in a lifestyle of sin and rebellion. When he comes to himself, he realizes the error of his ways and with a repentant heart returns home. The father graciously welcomes him back in a celebratory manner and says to his servants, from the lips of Jesus, some thought provoking words that I would ask for you to explain the meaning.
“‘For this my son was DEAD AND IS ALIVE AGAIN; he was lost and is found…’” vs. 14, 32
My questions to my Calvinist friends are… At what point did the son die, and when did he become alive again?
Shalom,
Brian
I have asked for some time now to air this, and I am so greatfull that it has. I am a little hard on calvinism and this is why: I had several friends who were so messed up feeling they were dammed. And it came from a calvinist teaching I would say a friend, but it is hard for me to call one a friend, who leads people as far as he did astray. Hate the evil not the person I know and do, but now this was the case. There were several in our group of 129 who thought because they still had sinful thoughts, they were not chosen. And it was due to this hard line calvinism person spreading false words. I believe we who teach as the word says, will answer to a more severe punishment for those who we miss lead. And that was so hard to explain to those who were confused. But yet they continue to guide people down a path where they feel unchosen and left behind, that they feel they are left behind and cannot be in the family of JESUS. And that was so heart breaking to try and explain it is simply not true. That who so ever calls upon the name of the LORD SHALL BE SAVED!!!!
Brian,
It seems to me that you do not understand thoroughly Reformed Faith and perseverance of saints witnessed by the Scriptures so many times. Certainly, it is not what you describe as ““once saved, always saved.” at least not in a way as it is commonly understood and misrepresented. It is certainly not a “license to sin” as it is trivialized and caricatured in pop mass culture Christianity and has utterly more profound implications for the believer and the Church of GOD.
To answer your question pertaining to Luke 15:11-32
“My questions to my Calvinist friends are… At what point did the son die, and when did he become alive again?” Only a third of that question is really a valid question. Two thirds of your question are invalid and inconsistent. The part that contains a logical part is: “when did he become alive again?” and I will answer it for you last.
First of all the prodigal son never became live “again” as you assert. Never “again” because he never was alive in a first place in a spiritual sense and in terms of salvation as you trying to understand soteriology trough this story. He was dead all along. Since when? You might ask… Well, you should now that very well and I apologize if you do but if you do not here it is:
“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;”
New American Standard Bible . Ge 3:17
This should settle for you and a reader. Prodigal son was spiritually dead. He was never coming alive “again.” The only valid part of your question remains: “so when did he become alive?”
Here is when:
““But when he came to 1his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! ”
New American Standard Bible Lk 15:17
Focus on this part:
“But when he came to himself (εἰς ἑαυτον δε ἐλθων [eis heauton de elthōn]
Robertson, A.T.: Word Pictures in the New Testament. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. Lk 15:17
I let wiser than me explain the significance of this “coming to himself” for you:
To “repent” means “to change one’s mind,” and that is exactly what the young man did as he cared for the pigs. (What a job for a Jewish boy!) He “came to himself,” which suggests that up to this point he had not really “been himself.” There is an “insanity” in sin that seems to paralyze the image of God within us and liberate the “animal” inside. Students of Shakespeare like to contrast two quotations that describe this contradiction in man’s nature.
Wiersbe, Warren W.: The Bible Exposition Commentary. Wheaton, Ill. : Victor Books, 1996, c1989, S. Lk 15:11
Soli Deo Gloria
Milhamah
Mike,
I would like to respond to your opinion and statements.
“But yet they continue to guide people down a path where they feel unchosen and left behind, that they feel they are left behind and cannot be in the family of JESUS.”
Have you notice how frequently you use word “FEEL” to describe the experience of this people. May I kindly suggest to you that saving faith does not depend on our feelings or emotions of any given day, week, month, year or period in our brief existence on this side of pearly gates. Faith is based on the truth of the Word of God and is testified in us by the Holy Spirit who seals us as belonging to the Lord. If we have that nobody can change it or make us “feel” this way or that way about it… No Calvinist and no Arminian… I do not know what this person was telling
Another issue that needs to be corrected and that is you misquoting the scripture due to your arminian tradition and man made philosophical lens that you use to read the Scripture with…
Quote from you:
“That who so ever calls upon the name of the LORD SHALL BE SAVED!!!!”
This is regarding Romans 10:13 but unfortunately misquoted.
This is what the Scripture say in main translations:
“for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13 NASB
“For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13 ESV
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:13 KJV
“for,“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13 NIV
As you can see NONE of them looks like your quote. The closest one KJV uses ONE word “whosoever” instead of your THREE words: “who so ever” and it uses “shall call” vs. yours “calls.”
There is a BIG difference between what you trying the text to say and actually what the text says…
I leave you with two quotes directly from the Scripture to make you think about your assertion (certainly not the Scripture’s) that “WHO SO EVER CALLS”…
“When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”
Acts 13:48 NASB
“The LORD has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.”
Proverbs 16:4 NASB
Soli Deo Gloria
MilhamaH