December 22, 2009
Should We Celebrate Christmas? (And a Visit from the Grandsons)
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Bo, You worked hard on your Jan 7th posting on covenants. I post some below.
If we have accepted Messiah, we are Israelites. All the covenants apply to us now. From Noah’s to Abraham’s to the Mosaic to the New Covenant. As you will see below you cannot disannul a covenant. YHWH’s words abide forever. His covenants are His words (promises) to us if we join His Bride Israel….
The new covenant is for Israel. It is not promised to the gentiles.(See below) The foreigner must become an Israelite to partake of any of the covenants of promise, including the New covenant. Y’shua didn’t come to make the Law of YHWH of none effect. He can’t; it abides forever. It is His revelation of righteous and holy living. The New covenant is YHWH’s law written on our hearts instead of on stone. It is Him causing us to love His law and thus do it instead of an outward imposition to try to live up to. The Law does not change, the person’s heart does. Note that in Heb. 8:8 He found fault with THEM (the people) not the Law. So the New covenant fixes the people so that they love and obey His unchanging Law….
The person in New covenant wants to obey YHWH’s law. That is what having it written on our hearts means.
At first such logic seems OK, the difficulty is that there are left out of your formula other scripture on whos who. It does present a problem to attempt to define who is Israel from the NT writings of Paul, of which your logic seems, at first, to address. You, of course, know the error of replacement theology–generated for some from the Romans 9-11 passage, a logic which even early Church History, and later Church denominal foundations often embrace. That passage mentions Gentiles being grafted in, which at one point earlier on you use some reasoning about space requirements to the tree analogy. You state that there is limited space for grafting due to branch composition mass occupancy so to speak [with you logic], mentioning a concept that Jews had to be removed to grant space for grafting in Gentiles. Perhaps, but this thinking seems to ignore that Paul’s own ideas were built of analogy, not of a literal tree.
Here it is a different problem of argumentation, which is that now that the Gentiles are included in the family tree, all the prior statements of covenant given the Jews now apply to them. Unfortunately this ignores the reference, time, place, and populations bonded to these timely positioned covenants. Though covenants be teleological, they are not necessarily reverse tunnelological. In other words, we cannot project present conversion populations into the past as to what covenants rendered in fact for those with whom they took effect in the past.
It does present a very vital scriptural riddle I have requested input from Dr. Brown in the past. The riddle? Taking into account all of Paul’s statements and writings on Israel, who does he say composes Israel in all instances? And so, where and when is natural Israel differentiated from all inclusions and exclusions resulting from Paul’s overall definitions of the Israel people of God in light of the New Covenant inclusions?
When one reads Daniel, with its heavenly revealed history of the Gentiles, and the Jews in relationship to the Jews placement in the Middle East, in the Promised Land, new questions are raised on who is in the mix of definition. Daniel writes of his people, at the time of the latter end. Whos who in that context also becomes a part and parcel to prophetic inclusions and exclusions due to what Bo outlines above. Many spiritualize certain prophecies, and accept literally others. Some say some prophecies go both ways on inclusions and exclusions. The question becomes a large one as to prophetic futures, the Millennium
continued–
and who is involved in the events of the return, and future rule with the Messiah.
The question then of who is Israel in scripture, and its future application, as well as present intentions since the visitation is an important one. I have asked Dr. Brown on many occasions to address this question, never done.
Asher Intrater, of Revive Israel, a messianic community in Israel and the USA who walks their talk, and has a resident school in Israel (and live according to scriptural covenants in many ways) has much to say on this subject as is derived from the present working with whos who on these questions. I would suggest keeping watch on his community’s progress and vision as to future prophetic fulfillments and these matters.
Erika, Knowing your zeal, and commitmentment (though sometimes displaced due to a lack of knowledge, which will come) and some of your heart, you could make an inquiry of the community I just mentioned as to your own schooling. They teach in Hebraic but offer Messianic credentials for working with Messianic congregations (synagogues or ecclesias?).
Thanks for that information Jabez, I will look into it.
As for how to discern these times we are living in, also regarding the Millenium, I was just talking to my mother this morning about it, and we saw a very interesting thing:
If you have a look at the last two chapters of Zechariah, chapters 12 – 14, it is described there all the turmoil of the end time, which is often referred to as “the great tribulation”.
In the beginning you see that God Himself is starting this turmoil (chapter 12:1-2). Why does He bring this turmoil about?
If you read through these chapters you will find that there is a major difference between the time before all the turmoil and the time after it. The difference is found in Zech. 14:16-19
Before the turmoil people don’t care about Jerusalem and even go against it. After the turmoil
“It will happen that everyone who is left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem will GO UP from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to KEEP THE FEAST OF BOOTHS. 14:17 It will be, that whoever of all the families of the earth doesn’t go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, on them there will be no rain. 14:18 If the family of Egypt doesn’t go up, and doesn’t come, neither will it rain on them. This will be the plague with which the LORD will strike the nations that don’t go up to keep the feast of booths. 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations that don’t go up to keep the feast of booths.”
So the big question is: Why does God bring all this turmoil about? Maybe he wants us to keep the feast of booths?
Also in Revelation we read about this feast, Tabernacles, in Rev. 21:3
“I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, “Behold, God’s tabernacle is with people, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.”
So we see that the feast of Tabernacles was first instituted by Moses as a rememberance that God was with the Israelites while they journied through the desert. If you ask Rabbis in Jerusalem, they say that this is the reason for the feast of Tabernacles:
Deutoronomy 29:5
“I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes have not grown old on you, and your shoes have not grown old on your feet. 29:6 You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink; that you may know that I am the LORD your God.” – God cares about His people and lives among them.
Second, in the Millenium our own wellfare will depend on this institution of the feast of Tabernacles, that God calls “His feast” (Leviticus 23:4).
And third, the best Tabernacle we will have on the new earth and the new heaven, when God Himself will wipe aways all tears from our eyes (Rev. 21:4) – this is the ultimate fulfillment of Tabernacles. Now we are required to get prepared for it!
This shows how the setting of the Old Testament prepares us for the future, and the great tribulation will ultimately bring everything back into its right order. Yes, Yeshua is the ultimate fulfillment of Torah.
Oh sorry, I meant the last three chapters of Zechariah, chapters 12, 13 and 14.
Erika, I knew what you meant. I am a Messianic believer born in the year Israel became a nation. Another reason for the fulfillment of such passages is to bring to pass the return, where the house of Israel becomes a house of prayer for the Nations. All such prophecy is vital to the planned future of redemption and the Return. Acts. 3:21.
So Jabez, you said in your first comment above on January 7
“Unless you are a Jewish believer, and then only by choice, does their own calendar become meaningful. We have freedom in the Messiah.”
Of course everybody has his free will and free choice. We can choose whatever we want. But we can’t choose the consequences of our choices. What does “Freedom in Messiah” mean? That in Messiah we are free to parttake in the covenant which God in the beginning only made with physical Israel, because Messiah is the true essence of that Covenant. That means that only in Him are we able to fulfill God’s Laws in Spirit and Truth.
When we read through these last three chapters of Zechariah, it seems to be a bad choice not to follow the Law of Moses in Yeshua’s Spirit.
Jabez,
You wrote this,
“You state that there is limited space for grafting due to branch composition mass occupancy so to speak [with you logic], mentioning a concept that Jews had to be removed to grant space for grafting in Gentiles. ”
Because I wrote this,
“Some of the natural branches have been broken off to make room for some of us wild olive shoots to be grafted into Israel and thus be granted citizenship, sonship and inheritance.”
Because Paul wrote this,
“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.”
I guess I didn’t quite choose the best wording in my paraphrase. I didn’t mean to imply that room was needed to be made for the wild olive branches. I was just attempting to show that gentiles are grafted into Israel. Sorry for the poor choice of words.
I do not accept replacement theology, in case there is any question in your mind about that.
Here is a passage that I left out of my 1/7/10 post.
Deut. 29
10 ¶ Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
16 (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;
17 And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them:)
18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
We see here that YHWH makes this covenant with all that were there that day and all that were not there that day. That pretty much includes everyone in every age, I think.
The “root that beareth gall and wormwood” is the same as the “root of bitteness” in Hebrews chapter 12. So if we decide that we do not have to do all that YHWH specifies and think that the curses will not come upon us though we walk after our own ideas, we are in big trouble. If we think we can have peace with YHWH while we are disobedient to the words of “this covenant”, we are badly mistaken.
So if a “man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God to go and serve the gods of these nations” by practicing their pagan customs on their pagan days of worship, what does it mean?
I think that we deceive ourselves and “walk afer the imagination of our own hearts” when we celebrate these pagan customs. The heart of man is deceitfully wicked. That is why YHWH spells out so clearly that we should not do things like the heathen. He says not to add to or take away from what He has written. To add Christmas to His holy days is wrong. To take away from His commandments by not celebrating His holy days is wrong.
So, what if a large group of believers (tribe?) neglects YHWH’s feasts and starts practicing their own celebrations? What if they say that they can have peace with YHWH because their hearts are right? What if this tribe of people started out as a spotless bride and now has become a great harlot that commits adultery with all the nations? (She takes the truth of scripture and mixes it with pagan worship?) (Rev. 17)
The Word has been sown and there are few that produce fruit, because of the cares of this life and such. An enemy has planted tares (false believers) among the good seed. The kingdom of heaven has been corrupted with leaven (sin and false doctrine). It has MUTATED into a huge mustard tree so that the fouls (every foul spirit and unclean and hateful bird of Rev. 18:2) of the air nest in its branches.(Mat.13:1-52)
This is the context that “Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.” is given in. (Remember you asked me what this means.) Do you realize (have you been instructed in the kingdom) that the judgment of YHWH is coming to His house first. (1 Pet.4:17) We must get rid of even the appearance of evil. Do Christmas, Lent, Easter, Advent, Sunday Sabbath and such appear evil to YHWH? There is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof are the ways of death.
We need to come out from among this tribe and not partake of her sins so that we will not partake of her judgments.(Rev. 18) The end is close and “knowledge has increased” (Dan. 12:1-4) so that we can see these things and put on our wedding garments and fill our lamps with oil and be invited to the Lamb’s wedding feast.(Mat. 25 and Rev.19)
Jabez, I mean no insult in this. This is very serious. I hope you will consider these things carefully. I am not judging you. I only wish you the best. We need to be hot or cold not lukewarm (mixing YHWH’s word with the worlds ideas).
I really have spent all the time I have right now. So I probably will not be able to post for awhile. I have been challenged by your thoughts. I have been compelled to study and meditate on the Word more. I appreciate your time and effort in this dialogue. I am sorry if you felt ganged up on. I think “iron has sharpened iron.” Stand strong on the truth. I wish you true Shalom.
Mal. 4
4 ¶ Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Shalom
Once again, interesting logic, Bo. I note with some detachment that you have not answered any questions which were jointly placed in a previous blog entry to you and Erika. Although you gave a sincerity oath on your past associations and efforts regarding your beliefs and personal history in reference to past personal advocacies of stated conviction, it remains unclear how these too have been applied and worked into your own testimony of faith in life. So, according to Yeshua, who is a faithful witness: one who proclaims sincerity, or one whose fruit is additionally observable and qualifiable who washed their life trappings in the blood of the Lamb?
Why is this important to readers here at all, if one can remain involved here without a personal testimony linkage to personal history and the blood of the Lamb, and yet still comment at will as being the supposed representative of the redemptive plan of God?
Might it be because others cannot tell the dancer from the dance unless the dance is seen and experienced along with any absolute statements made by someone in using scripture in asserting its inclusion and exclusion? How has the passage you quoted as a supposed requirement of linkage to being of the people of God then been applied throughout the Bible, as to your logic, on all others of faith? This is telling indeed as to an interpretation offered as to the passage being a yoke of presumption or a yoke of fact: of believers in Yeshua/Jesus.
The dance mentioned above, where you have excluded Christmas and Advent for all other hearts and minds of a New Covenant faith, only permits a view of these as pagan in application. And as is so by your statements in spite of any clarifying redemption message history of a given nation, or other known faithful contexts. Significantly, this once more ignores altogether Paul’s Mars Hill declaration on God’s own design in placing peoples, nations, and time in juxtaposition to predetermined God determined plans of redemption for such.
So, aren’t you limiting God’s own plan by an interpretive pronouncment of a quoted Torah scripture passage as to asserting an absolute and all encompassing interpretation of its meaning and intention? And, in the process, placing this above most other scripture as to defining the whole people of God’s inclusion and exclusion by clipping in a contextless selective definition? Where would this agree with the adoption and election statements of Paul, and how might it fit into the Gospels’ redemption offerings? Where is it found then requoted as required in the New Testament? And, if so, how is it referenced?
Since Babylon in Genesis the tongues of men have been diverse, which also helped draw the present boundaries of nations and peoples, tribes, and kindred. Hebrew, Aramaic, or even once common Greek have not become the international language, in spite of Biblical belief in any nation, but English has become close to being such now of the media Age of the Gentiles. How is such reality as is of our earth’s history in Christ indeed relevant to the key clipped scripture you thought defines inclusion and exclusion?
The importance of context becomes very apparent as to qualifying what you posted and attempted by a brief exposition for a larger magification of its meaning. Especially in light of the above paragraphs and the contents of the New Testament we have to examine your assertion of intention. If the Deut. section represents a continuum of God’s people, as to inclusion and exclusion, for all peoples, nations, kindreds and tribes over time, would it not be then so repeated by all the Apostles as an essential point to the message of the One Sent? Would it not be found too among the 7 Kingdom passages of Mt. 13? It is remarkably absent.
Why is it not so repeated, again and again as key to Kingdom inclusion requirements? Was it of the message to Nicodemus? It seems this question has to do with context, and a teleological measure of any scripture, where Yeshua is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is Yeshua having established the New and Living way, not the Law statements of past Biblical history as were founded among the history of its given region. What you seem to be suggesting is in fact addressed in Ezkl 47:21 and 22 as to the passage and its fulfillment there over time.
Lets examine your convictions and logic. Since Yeshua stated that John the Baptiser was the fulfillment of the statement on Elijah you also cited, and Yeshua stopped reading the section of Isaiah on who he was on his first reading of it in his local assembly (just prior to its next statement on the Day of the Lord), what is to be learned by your Deut. passage emphasis not being picked up with NT statements of its fulfillment then in the fullness of His visitation time? What is then the statement of relevance to your quotation as you made it above? Does Yeshua in fact ever mention it in his ongoing teaching at all as to being included or excluded from his own offering to be of the whole people of God?
Context.
Your quotation is about the “tribes of Israel,” not the whole people of God, the numberless multitude of Revelation.
Just a short note here Jabez.
As I said before, this is at least not for me – but I also think not for Bo about inclusion or exclusion from Yeshua’s redemption work.
His redemption work saves us – not matter in what state we are – if we accept it.
In Acts 10 in the story of Cornelius we then see that by Cornelius living a righteous life, which showes His repentance from paganism, and by praying to God all the time, he found grace in God’s eyes and “got saved” if you will – this was the inclusion in Yeshua’s redemption work.
We see though that in Peter’s vision in Acts 10 this vision was not about food, but about people who were WILLING to be included into the covenant of the God of Israel. They were not to be called “unclean” just because they had not jumped through all the rabbinical hoops of the time.
You see, Cornelius was a righteous man, praying to God all the time, but none of the Apostles ever had visited him, because God’s covenant was considered by them as being only for Israel.
In the story of Cornelius there is no hint that now the Israelites could do whatever all the others did or that all the others never had to repent, rather it shows that God’s covenant with Israel was now also extended to all the rest of the world through Yeshua to those who were WILLING to change their lives like Cornelius, as the Apostles say in Acts 11:18
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, “THEN GOD HAS ALSO GRANTED TO THE GENTILES REPENTANCE TO LIFE!”
You mentioned Paul’s Mars Hill declaration quite often, so I’ll give you now the context for it:
Acts 17:16 –> Paul’s spirit was provoked by all the idolatry in this place.
Acts 17:19-21 –> Paul was put on the spot by curious people.
Acts 17:22-31 –> Paul shares the good news effectively to pagan Greeks.
My question is: does Paul now after the conversion of some of these pagans endorse their life style and just said “give it now a new meaning”? I cannot see this AT ALL in this text. Paul rather says in Acts 17:29 and 30
“Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God OVERLOOKED. BUT NOW he commands that ALL people EVERYWHERE should repent”.
Paul says this even to yet unconverted people!!!
This is my answer to your Mars Hill question. We have to reach the people, but we have to lead them to God without endorsing vain life style.
The Mars Hill declaration was all about salvation. But we HAVE to continue from there on the narrow path leaving everything behind we were accustomed to. If we don’t do that, we will always remain babes in the faith.
I have said in other posts on this blog before that our salvation has to go beyond just “accepting Yeshua in our heart” and meaning it well. After that there starts another salvation process which will determine our place in God’s kingdom in the future. It’s not about who gets the best place, but its all about how to live and show Messiah – how to represent Him here on earth. This is why Bo and I are posting here.
Matthew 5:19
If you compare now the verses 19 and 20 with each other, you will see that there is a vast difference between the Oral Law of the Pharisees and the Law of Moses.
In this conflict about the Oral Law and Pharisaical authority the Pharisees repeatedly challenged Yeshua in the gospel of John asking Him were he got His authority from that He sat against them, because the crowds now started to follow Yeshua instead of following them which they found quite inconvenient (this just in reference to a previous post).
In Zechariah 14:16-19 we can see how the proper order lookes like, and that should be our goal.
Well, As for a Biblical basis for observance, and inclusion and exclusion in the whole people of God as applying to the passage Bo introduced, this was the primary consideration for a response. His advocacy lacked certain context and championed other context not really of the passage. Even in the Revelation the tribes 144,000 appear seperately from those multitudes without number, both saved groups of people.
I have studied the nuances of the oral vs. written law in the season of the visitation. Again, John 8 is dealing with the hearts of the critics, not their beliefs, for, they have rejected the Sent One. This is not so much about oral vs. written but it is about the receptivity or lack and what the price was. I think of Yeshua in that interchange as informing the other audience, i.e. the readers of the conflict and His assertion of identity, i.e. those of us of faith reading the scriptures and believing in Him.
The Mars Hill declaration is also very important to understanding what God has determined in reference to peoples, nations, boundaries, and placements in time factoring into the redemptive plans and intentions of God. It takes to task a limited view of interaction and blessing, such as Bo asserts, above.
I think that the 144,000 will be the “missionaries” of the Millennial Kingdom who will finally bring about the change of Zechariah 14:16ff
How about that?
Cetainly Erika, One view is that this number from the trives will be missionaries. Another view is that they will link both covenants with the same kind of purity which Yeshua himself lived. In other words, that they too will fulfill righteousness as part of the fulfillment of Tenach prophecy.
We can speculate where Asher Intrater has developed considerable prayerful research and development from scripture and living faith communities in Israel on this calling for those of the tribes. Bo seems to want what he quoted from Deut. to extend as a standard to all people of belief everywhere. Since the plan of redemption for Israel in the last days, final events, is predetermined and vital to the return, it may be wise to hear what the Spirit is saying to the saints today in the beautiful Land. Acts. 3:21 ia also in play in the matter. And He, not we, is in charge of His plan of redemption, a reflection of the wisdom of that cited community.
Erika, and all, In regard to what I wrote above please see
http://www.revive-israel.org/2010/01-03-praying-for-revival-in-israel.html
This year’s articles from Asher are telling of what is occurring now in terms of vision and plan for redemption.
Thank you Jabez, but “those of the tribes” can certainly NOT identify themselves anymore, except the Spirit is revealing it to them, since the Northern Kingdom of Israel is lost to humanity since 721 BCE (but not lost to YHWH).
Secondly, these 144,000 wil certainly play the role of “turning the hearts of the children to the hearts of the fathers (Malachi 4:6)
Thus they will be missionaries IN reconciling different people groups – those groups that always thought “this covenant is only for the Jews” – this will be their true mission. As I said – they will bring about the change of Zechariah 14:16-19.
I think it is always great to work together with people in Israel, but it’s not wrong to use our own brain either. There are no covenants that are exclusively made for certain people groups. All the covenants that were made were made for the purpose of spreading God’s Kingdom all over the earth – for EVERYBODY!!! I also laid this out in my last response to the December 21 discussion.
In Genesis 18:19 we read:
“For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice.”
God chose Abraham as a means of establishing His Kingdom on earth. Abraham was the beginning, Yeshua will accomplish it.
These are man-made walls that Yeshua came to break down (Ephesians 2:14), what you also can see in the event of Cornelius. Anybody who wants to keep Torah is free to do it, and the One who approves this is God by pooring out His Spirit. The approval comes from God, not from man.
P.S. these covenants were made WITH certain people groups (the house of Israel and the house of Judah) – but they were made in order to bring the knowledge of YHWH to the whole world.
So they were made WITH certain people, but FOR everybody. It is understandable though, that the Jews have seperated themselves from other peoples in order to not get assimilated, since the “FOR everybody” can only come about through Yeshua – through His supernatural power to change the lives of people.
So there is no “Torah-group” and “without-Torah-group” in the body of Messiah – we ALL should follow YHWH’s Law in Spirit and Truth. Or does anybody want to tell me that the oracles of God are not ment for Gentiles??? Thank you very much – this is indeed racism! Sorry, this is not meant to be mean in any way – but I guess some Messianics don’t have a clue what they are saying when they are saying that kind of stuff. It is just as if they would say: “Yeshua is not meant for Gentiles!”.
Erika, we covered Acts 15 already about Gentile requirements of the law as adjudicated by the Jerusalem council, and the Mars Hill declaration on people groups, nations, tribes among them, etc. Also, if one wants to know their tribe if Jewish there are DNA research sites which can bring this to pass. The 144,000 of the Revelation are identified by tribe for fulfillment of calling. Which tribes play into the end events changes over time from the Torah period to the Revelation by slight differences in whos who. An interesting study for certain.
It seems like we deal with the issues you raised, then you reraise them as though no interchange on these matters happened here, thus ignoring the evidence from scripture you were given on these matters altogether. Dialogue, not monologue, is the stuff of iron sharpening iron.
Jabez, the reason I reraise these issues again is because I think that scripture clearly teaches us something else than what you are conveying here. Again – I don’t accept the idea that there is an acceptable and recommendable split in the body of Messiah. In Acts 11:18 the Apostles clearly state that the gentiles now could be INCLUDED into Yahweh’s covenant with Israel – and in Acts 15:21 we clearly see that it the was common practice of the time to hear Yahweh’s Word in the synagogues!
And if you want to know for a fact – the three commandments in Acts 15:28-29 were the regular commandments for people who wanted to attend the synagogues – these commandments were NOT a new idea of the Apostles!
First you learn the three commandments – then you learn the ten commandments – and finally you shlould grow up to know the whole Word of Yahweh!
Hebrews 5:10-13
“named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. 5:11 About him we have many words to say, and hard to interpret, seeing you have become dull of hearing. 5:12 For although by this time you should be teachers, you again need to have someone teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God. You have come to need milk, and not solid food. 5:13 For everyone who lives on milk is not experienced in the word of righteousness, for he is a baby. 5:14 But solid food is for those who are full grown, who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil. ”
Also Peter states CLEARLY in 2.Peter 3:16
“In those (letters of Paul), there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” – So we have to learn the scriptures – the TORAH dear Jabez – or what Scriptures was Peter talking about???
If we don’t recognize that the message of Yeshua starts in GENESIS already, we have our heads FULL of Replacement Theology!
Luke 24:25-27
“He said to them, “Foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 24:26 Didn’t the Messiah have to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?” 24:27 Beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he explained to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.”
If we don’t know Yeshua from the BEGINNING ON we will finally come up with “another Jesus” – the replacement of little Tammuz who was born on December 25th and for whom you have to do a forty-day lent (because he died at age 40 in an hunting accident) before you honor his mother the sex-godess Easter
who allegedly after her death landed in the Euphrates river in a giant egg which broke open, she stepped out if it and as a sign of her divinity turned a flying bird into an egg-laying rabbit, which resulted in the practice of dying eggs in the blood of sacrificed children in her honor.
Oh yeah – a cool video here on this topic:
http://www.michaelroodministries.com/bunny_down.htm
- since we have arrived at Passover time already and hopefully will leave Easter far behind us
Shalom my friends!!